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Thread: Transponder Maps ~ Data 10/16/2019

  1. #1461
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    Until about a week ago, TPS 18 was always pegged out.
    David

  2. #1462
    Super Moderator Tom Speer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogbreath View Post
    Until about a week ago, TPS 18 was always pegged out.
    That would indicate that D9S has picked up that spotbeam, maybe. But pegged out? The closest Net 0 TPN 18 spot beam to Weaverville, NC is D4S beam S06 and D9S beam RB06, both centered between Nashville and Huntsville. The beam contours from the FCC filings indicate a signal level of 45 to 46 dBw in Weaverville from D4S and 42 to 43 dBW from D9S.
    Both are on the lower edge of usability, but the D9s signal is half the power of D4s. That's what the filing data says, but the D4S and D9S beam footprints were filed a long time ago, and I don't put a lot of faith in their accuracy. I can't actually find them on the FCC servers. The ones we have were created by user "Spear61", and he is no longer around these forums.
    Last edited by Tom Speer; 08-25-2019 at 02:50 AM.
    Tom Speer, N2HF, the curious otter. Part of the DataDigesters team.

  3. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Speer View Post
    ... I can't actually find them on the FCC servers. The ones we have were created by user "Spear61", and he is no longer around these forums.
    Hey Tom, wasn't that him posting on the T16 thread just last month (latest 7/15)?

    Satellite T16 Discussion - Page 9

  4. #1464
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    I also once hoped that the retired DIRECTV engineer I privately corrosponded with for a long time a couple of years ago, who now occasionally posts under the screen name of "inclined orbit" on the satelliteguys forum. If he would be able to shed some light on which satellite was actually handling what traffic between T4S and T9S.

    And somewhat to my surprise and dissappointment, long time engineer notwithstanding, he said that he didn't know much about the older legacy Ku DBS satellites at 101, 110, 119W. Or how they're presently configured and specifically uplinked to.

    Though since he was the chief engineer at the CBC, which to my knowledge don't have any 17.3-17.8/12.2-12.7 GHz DBS uplinks, I guess it's understandable. ....

  5. #1465
    Super Moderator Tom Speer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoTat2 View Post
    Hey Tom, wasn't that him posting on the T16 thread just last month (latest 7/15)?

    Satellite T16 Discussion - Page 9
    Yeah, but he has said he is out of the beam footprint business. In the beam footprint library on this site, I rearranged the format of his data in the KML files, with a text editor, for sats which don't have GXT files on the FCC database. After I developed a program to transform GXT files to KML and KMZ files, we recalculated all the beam footprints we could from the FCC GXT files. (A KMZ file is a zipped KML file , and it can be unzipped.)

    I don't know how much manual effort went into Spear61's beam footprints. Perhaps manual interpolation of printed patterns was involved, hopefully not. But I am also skeptical about the small scale accuracy of the original filing data on the early satellites.

    In general, it just doesn't matter. D9S is in the process of taking over the spot beam duty from D4S, and D4S will be retired shortly. As for the rest, the beam footprints are the best data we can find. The actual signal levels on the ground may deviate from what the beam footprints say.
    Tom Speer, N2HF, the curious otter. Part of the DataDigesters team.

  6. #1466
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    Though I never could really figure out why unlike with T4S, the local spotbeams from T7S and T9S are grouped into these "B", "C", and "R" categories.

    While Gary claimed they likely referred to different beam shapes, the same footprint shapes seemed to be used in multiple categories. And while I found one FCC filed supplementary technical document for T7S that I thought contained a clue where it showed how the spotbeams emanated from three separate antennas on the satellite's body. It labeled them IIRC, as "NW", "NE", and "SE" and not as B, C, and R.

    So I was just never able to figure that out what that bream nomenclature was all about. And is perhaps buried and forgotten in the technical archives of SSL Corp. or someplace. ...

  7. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Speer View Post
    Yeah, but he has said he is out of the beam footprint business. In the beam footprint library on this site, I rearranged the format of his data in the KML files, with a text editor, for sats which don't have GXT files on the FCC database. After I developed a program to transform GXT files to KML and KMZ files, we recalculated all the beam footprints we could from the FCC GXT files. (A KMZ file is a zipped KML file , and it can be unzipped.)

    I don't know how much manual effort went into Spear61's beam footprints. Perhaps manual interpolation of printed patterns was involved, hopefully not. But I am also skeptical about the small scale accuracy of the original filing data on the early satellites.

    In general, it just doesn't matter. D9S is in the process of taking over the spot beam duty from D4S, and D4S will be retired shortly. As for the rest, the beam footprints are the best data we can find. The actual signal levels on the ground may deviate from what the beam footprints say.
    I still lurk around to see what you guys are up to but am quiet since I rarely have anything new to contribute.

    I'll dig back to see where I found the FCC data.

    But, I can tell you now, I never interpret data and anything I gave you was derived from the FCC files without any interpretation or estimation.

    My kml/kmz files are on google's servers.

    Click on left side link for the download links

    https://sites.google.com/site/satkmz/

  8. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Speer View Post
    That would indicate that D9S has picked up that spotbeam, maybe. But pegged out? The closest Net 0 TPN 18 spot beam to Weaverville, NC is D4S beam S06 and D9S beam RB06, both centered between Nashville and Huntsville. The beam contours from the FCC filings indicate a signal level of 45 to 46 dBw in Weaverville from D4S and 42 to 43 dBW from D9S.
    Both are on the lower edge of usability, but the D9s signal is half the power of D4s. That's what the filing data says, but the D4S and D9S beam footprints were filed a long time ago, and I don't put a lot of faith in their accuracy. I can't actually find them on the FCC servers. The ones we have were created by user "Spear61", and he is no longer around these forums.
    The 9S Schedule S data base link. Cant' remember where I found it. Back then I hired an FCC consultant to chase down some of the missing files. This could have been one of them. And I ended up having to useFreedom of Information to get my hands on one of the first Echostar files (these were all back in the day when the older satellites had not been digitized for internet access.

    directv 9s 101.mdb - Google Drive
    Last edited by Spear61; 08-25-2019 at 07:52 PM.

  9. #1469
    Super Moderator Gary Toma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Speer View Post
    ....The ones we have were created by user "Spear61", and he is no longer around these forums.
    "Rumors of the demise of Spear61 have been greatly exaggerated !"
    Mark Twain
    Last edited by Gary Toma; 08-26-2019 at 12:06 AM.

  10. #1470
    Super Moderator Tom Speer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear61 View Post
    The 9S Schedule S data base link. Cant' remember where I found it. Back then I hired an FCC consultant to chase down some of the missing files. This could have been one of them. And I ended up having to useFreedom of Information to get my hands on one of the first Echostar files (these were all back in the day when the older satellites had not been digitized for internet access.

    directv 9s 101.mdb - Google Drive
    Thank you for that database file. I'm sorry that I put you through the effort of finding it. After I copied it from your link, I found that I already had it stored, it was originally in the FCC filing SAT-RPL-20050322-00070, from 2005. We never updated the beam footprints from it, because we weren't very interested in SD satellites at the time. When I looked at our beam footprints, and noted that the KML files still included the notation that it was from your work (I put that in for anything derived from you), I assumed it was because we didn't have the FCC data. I was wrong.

    The satellites currently in use, that I don't have original FCC data for, are D4S and D7S. I am fine with the beam footprints that you provided, my main doubt would have been in the editing that I did to your files to standardize the layout of our KML files. That was an unnecessary effort, as it turns out. Any problems aren't important. D4S will be out of service in a couple of weeks, and D7s may have a similar fate, soon..
    Tom Speer, N2HF, the curious otter. Part of the DataDigesters team.

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